最新J-20图片发布---(附日本F-3“心神”VS中国J-20)
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来源：http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/187501-clearest-j-20-pictures.html
正文翻译:
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：jinjianjun1030 转载请注明出处
本贴论坛地址： http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-65731-1-1.html 


评论翻译:
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：jinjianjun1030 转载请注明出处
本贴论坛地址： http://www.ltaaa.com/bbs/thread-65731-1-1.html 

评论翻译:
Pakistanisage(巴基斯坦）
I would love to see this baby in action. Is there a two seater version ? 

看到这家伙在不断发展真心开心。有双座机的图片么？


rai_kamal（印度）
This fighters definetly looks more stealthier than pakfa, but looking at the canards and huge tails I may be wrong with my perception.. 

这架飞机看起来绝对比PAKFA（T-50)的隐身性能要好，考虑到鸭翼和巨大的尾翼，也许我的猜测是错的。


feilong（中国）
Anywhere Indian posted, the thread either is sh!t or BS. Don't have to reply to them. 

只要印度人回复的主题，那么这个帖子必将变成SHI，印度人不要再回复了。 


Ulysses(美国)
I'm sure an F-15SE would give this J-20 such a hard time

我确信F-15SE（最新沉默鹰）可以给J-20一点苦头吃吃。 


ashokdeiva
Its a mean machine, hope that will get head ache to the designers in the US to get back to the drawing boards to design some thing thats invisible to naked eye as well. or they already have a more sophesticated design. 

这台机器对于美国人来说相当头疼，他们的设计师必须重新设计一种连肉眼也看不见的战机，或者他们已经有这种高级的设计了。


cybertron（印度）
beautiful pics 

好图 


GR!FF!N（印度)
i think J-20's canard will increase its rcs multifold.correct me if i wrong..

我觉得J-20的鸭翼会增加它的RCS，如果我错了请纠正。

@Ulysses

我说Ulysses,

can you tell me is F-15 SE's frontal rcs as low as F-35???and I don't think its all around stealth counts much(though low observable paint was used).. 

你是不是想告诉我F-15SE的正面RCS比F-35还小？ 我觉得F-15SE不是全方位隐身的战机。（虽然使用了隐身涂层） 


Safriz（巴基斯坦）
Tes 15 F-15 will give one J-20 a hard time....By falling all over the place and J-20 trying to avoid the debris 

F-15E确实会让J-20有点头痛，J-20必须要躲掉F-15SE被击落时的大量碎片。


Esc8781（美国）
It would have a hard time with the EA-18G Growler, which shot the f-22 down in practice 

EA-18G咆哮着会给J-20来上一壶，他曾经在训练的种击败F-22.


danger-zone（巴基斯坦）
What I see right now, that F-15SE already giving a HARD TIME to get a confirmed customer. 

目前我们看到的是，F-35SE已经给他的客户们吃上一壶啦。。。


terranMarine（中国）
Always comments from Indians about the J-20 being a copy of the F-22. Sure it has some similarities to the F-22 if you look at the cockpit and intake, but that 's about it. However the Tejas looks almost identical to the mirage 2000. 

经常看到印度人回复说J-20是山寨F-22的，确实如果你看它的驾驶座和进气口的确有点类似，但是只是类似。然而你们的LCA和幻影2000几乎一模一样。


Ulysses
that's because there's better options out there of course... This J-20 is not battle tested as the F15s
What customers does Pakistan have? 

那是因为他们没什么别的选择了，J-20有F-15的战场经验么？
巴基斯坦有战机客户么？


Bilal587（巴基斯坦）

Stealth Stealth Stealth 
When this beast fully operational ???
and
Does PAF keens to buy these beasts and does China will allow this to export ??? 

隐身 隐身 隐身 
这个野兽什么时候交给军方使用？
巴基斯坦空军会买么？中国会允许它出口么？


ashokdeiva（印度）
PFA will be of course interested in getting its hands on this mean machine, but the question is, will China sell it just like that to expose its R&D that it spent in developing a 5th generation plane to any country that soon 

巴基斯坦当然想要这种飞机，但是中国出口的话就是将J-20的研发暴露于世界，等到中国研制出第5代战机再说吧。 


GR!FF!N（印度）
i'm more interested on J-15.is there any confirmed pic of J-15???
and another question..why J-20 uses canards when it'll increase rcs multifold???not a single stealthy aircraft uses canard. 

我更想了解J-15,有没有J-15的照片？？
J-20为什么要用鸭翼，这肯定会增加RCS啊？
目前没有一款隐身战机使用鸭翼的。 


terranMarine（中国）
Over smart?, it's called pointing out that Indian race is arrogant who often looks down on others by calling them copy cats when they can't even make state of the art products. You may think the tejas has a TOTALLY different air frame, but why don't you check out yourself what the mirage 2000 looks like and you see what i'm talking about.

（喷前面的略）印度人总傲慢的说其他国家设计的飞机是仿制，但是他们自己却什么也造不出。你也许认为LCA是完全不同的设计，但是你们自己为什么不看下幻影2000是什么什么样子的？等你看了再来说吧。 


GR!FF!N（印度)
the thread is on J-20..i think its humiliation for others Chinese members that you are trying to discuss Tejas in a thread related to mighty 5th gen J-20.. 
by the way...why are you started trolling when nobody is trolling right now???? 

主题是J-20。。。我认为你们中国人在强大的五代机J-20的的主题里讨论LCA是相当耻辱的。顺便说一句。。你在这里喷什么，这里可没人在喷哦？


Imran Khan（巴基斯坦）
its ser#2002 its mean second bird?? as i remember first one was 2001 

这是2002，难道有2号机了？我记得第一架J-20是2001。 


isro2222（印度）
Pak-fa, F-22, Jf-20, JSF-35.... None can match power of starship ATHENA and its 1 million battleships which are deployed inside Starship ATHENA.... All of them are Light speed with powerful beam weapons that can melt any Jetfighter in nano second.... 

T-50，F-22,J-20,JSF-35。。。 前面几种飞机，没有一架能和歼星舰雅典娜号比的，歼星舰内有100万架太空战舰。。。所有这些战舰都能光速飞行，他们的武器能在1纳秒内融化喷气式战斗机。


RazorMC（巴基斯坦）
Maybe I'm wrong, but the J-20's design doesn't seem to be as stealthy as PAK-FA, let alone the Raptor.
Canards and engine-nozzle are the killers. 

也许我错了，但是J-20的设计貌似不是T-50那种隐身方式，让猛禽孤独吧。
鸭翼和尾喷是杀手。 


PERSIAN GOD KING(伊朗）
Don't know about the raptor, but the j-20 is more stealth than PAK-FA and the f-35. 

不了解猛禽，但是J-20要比T-50和F-35在隐身方面更好。 


timetravel（印度)
nice joke. J-20 wont be able to match mig-29 or MKI of India. forget rest. 

不错的笑话，J-20连MIG-29和MKI都比不过。


Pak47（巴基斯坦）
A list of best fighter planes according to Indians.
1. Pak-Fa
2. Su-30 Mki
3. lca
4. Mig-29
5. Mirage-2000
6. Mig-21 bison
Then.. everything else. 

一个印度人排的最好飞机的排名 
1. Pak-Fa(T-50)
2. Su-30 Mki
3. lca
4. Mig-29
5. 欢迎2000
6. Mig-21 bison（野牛）
7.世界其他所有飞机


The SC（加拿大）
Have anyone noticed that the tails are multidirectional?
Does it compensate for the multidirectional engine nozzles of some sophisticated fighter airplanes?
All in all it is an original design with surprising technologies. And when China is done with the tests and produces enough for its air forces, it will make some to the specifications of Pakistan and soon, just like the Qing class submarines already in production. 

你们没注意到尾翼是全动的么？
这种设计能补偿没有矢量发动机么？
总的来说，这是一个令人惊讶的初始设计。当中国测试完成并装备自己空军足够多的时候，他将会为巴基斯坦生产专门的型号，就像“清”级那样。


sweetgrape（中国）
I found, many indians seem to play as a expert, always focus on the stealth character, I don't know the 4th generation plane only have only stealth character? 
For me, J20 is breakthrough for China military development, If you judge it, you should think of that what do the designer of J20 want to? Maybe you are right, The canard will increase the RCS, but it will increase the maneuverability, with the special material, the RCS will decrease some! We also can cut the CANARD, but, why should we must follow USA fully?
Except f22, which plance has less RCS than J20 in asian? yes, we want J20 can rival F22, but we also are realistic, IF RCS can be the only factor to decide the war, why not make WOOD plane?
I am not expert, You indian more, from the appearance of it you can judge it is "copy" of other? as you logic, why your own plany is not? You military industry suck, from most of indian comment, you can find the result and reason. RCS, compare J20 with F22, so what about you? or after you buying F22, then we talk! J20 is only the absorber of eyes, China pull it out, Do you think we just want to increase the so-called "transparency? EXCEPT J10 and J20, other projects are not revealed formally!! 

我发觉印度人老是表现的像专家一样，总是专注于隐身性能，难道四代机只有隐身这一个特性么？
我是这样认为的，J-20是中国军事技术的突破，如果你要评论J-20，那就先想下我们研制它是为了什么？也许你是对的，鸭翼趋势增加了RCS，但同时也增加了机动性，而鸭翼是用特殊材料制作，他会降低RCS。我们确实可以不用鸭翼，难道我们必须和MD做的一样才叫隐身？
除了F-22，在亚洲还有什么国家的飞机RCS小于J-20的？是的，我们希望J-20能超越F-22，但是我们也很现实，如果隐身是现代战机唯一标准，我们为什么不造木头飞机？
我不是什么专家，在印度这样的专家很多—只要看下外表就能判断这东西是山寨的。按照你的理论，为什么你们自己的飞机不是山寨的呢？你们的军事工业太渣了，从你们印度的回复来看，你们到现在还没找到原因。在这比较J-20和F-22的RCS，请问你的飞机呢？恩，要不等到你们买了F-22在谈？中国官泄J-20，你以为只是想提高所谓的“透明度”，除了J-10和J-20，还有更多没被泄露项目！！！


timetravel（印度）
PAKFA is so superior to ur J-20 that it is a non comparison. Russia is China's grand father's grand father's grandfatger in making fighter aircrafts... But i suppose chinese have to create such sensationalism that J-20 is there with f-22 (when in reality it wont be able to face MKI or mig 29 even) to satisfy their public..
so J-20 neither has RCS... (goes the stealth).. neither it will have the weapons nor the ecm of the other advanced fighters like MKI or MIG-29 as no one gave them any of that...
so J-20 is china's attempt to say hey other's got 5th Gen how come we also dont have. so lets say to public we have j-20 which is also 5th gen (when it cant even face MKI/mig 29) to keep them quite.. thats all about j-20. 

T-50是如此强大于你们的J-20，这根本不容置疑。俄罗斯在战机研发上是中国爷爷的爷爷的爷爷。我猜测中国研制这种哗众取宠类似F-22的战机（在现实中，他甚至没能力面对MKI和MIG-29）只是满足民众而已。
所以J-20既没有提高RCS。。。也没装备像MKI和MIG-29那样的武器、电子对抗和其他先进装备。
所以中国只是试图让J-20进入他们未曾进入的五代及行列，然后告诉民众J-20是五代机（它其实连MKI/MIG-29都远不如）。这就是J-20的全部。 


UKBengali（孟加拉国）
You really have no idea what you are talking about. 

你根本不知道你在说什么。 


terranMarine（中国)
I really don't know why you people love comparing the J-20 to Mig-29. The J-20 is a stealth bomber not a superiority fighter. The Mig-29's role is a Air-superiority fighter, multirole fighter and is similar to the Su-27. These fighters are very agile and have many purposes such as intercept and dogfight. The bulky J-20 isn't designed for a dogfight. Do you also proudly compare the Mig-29 with the F-117 because their mission was bombing targets at night and quickly returning back to base afterwards. 

我真不知道你们印度人那么爱把J-20和你们的MIG-29比较。J-20是隐身轰炸机而不是空优战机，米格29的作用就空优，多用途，类似SU-27. 这些飞机非常灵巧主要用来拦截和格斗。体型巨大的J-20不是设计用来格斗的。你可以更自豪的对比MIG-29和那些晚上出击，轰炸后立马回程的F-117 。 


GR!FF!N(印度)
1st.. J-20(as it appears) will not be most stealthy aircraft in the sky of asia..it'll be Japan's(and maybe Korea's) F-35.
2nd..J-20 has a lot of flaws..sawtooth design is missing,canards,engine,tail fins etc etc(i think a senior member can help more than me..i can only post you links where it was studied in details)
3rd.nobody said you to follow americans.but stealth is a major features of a 5th gen aircraft.what is the point to add a canard to a fighter bomber for maneuverability when it'll make this jet as visible as Rafale???
4th..this thread is not about Indian arms industry.ignore the trolls and move on.
5th.if my questions are annoying..you may ignore me too..but i don't have any trolling intension. 

第一，J-20（从表面上面）不会是亚洲天空中隐身性能最好的，最好的会是日本或韩国的F-35.
第二，J-20在设计上有许多瑕疵，例如鸭翼，发动机，尾翼等（我认为坛内大神应该能给出更多。）
第三，没人说你们仿制美国佬的，但是隐身是五代机最重要的特性，在战斗轰炸机上面装一对鸭翼来增加机动性技能使它和阵风一样灵活么？
第四，这个主题不是讨论印度飞机的，我无视那些喷子。
第五，如果我的问题很烦，你可以无视我，但我绝对不会喷。。。 


RazorMC（巴基斯坦）
The J-20 is designed primarily as a stealth air-superiority fighter, not just a bomber.
Not even the F-22 was designed specifically for a dogfight, but it can still stand its ground in that field, owing to its power and manoeuvrebility (even without canards ) 

J-20是一款隐身空优战斗机，不是轰炸机。
F-22不知有出色的格斗能力，而且还有强大的对地能力，那是因为他有强大发动机和机动性（甚至不需要鸭翼）。 


antonius123（印度尼西亚）
Thatss bullshit. j20 lack in term of stealth is only cannardd existance, but thats minor. Expert say j20 shape suggest it is more stealthy than PAKFA (Carlo Copp). I have explain that in some threats. 

你说的都是废话（针对那第一、第二的那家伙），J-20隐身性能下降时由于鸭翼的存在，但是影响很小。专家（Carlo Copp）都说J-20的隐身性能强于T-50.我已经在其他的主题里面阐述过了。


Martian2(穿美国马甲的中国技术流FQ，V587)

I thought I put an end to the silly idea that the Pak-Fa was comparable to the J-20 Mighty Dragon stealth fighter? Does anybody bother to read my posts and look carefully at my labeled diagrams?
Su-30 is not stealthy. Therefore T-50/Pak-Fa is not stealthy.
Everyone agrees the Su-30 is not stealthy. In the following picture, I have identified 10 important non-stealth features of the Su-30. Interestingly, the T-50/Pak-Fa has the exact same 10 non-stealth features.
It seems to me there are only two logical choices. Either you agree with me that the T-50/Pak-Fa is not stealthy. Or you can make the incredible claim that both the T-50 and Su-30 are stealthy. I leave the choice to you.

我思索着，我要终止这种2B想法“T-50能和J-20威龙比隐身性能？"你们都不削看我的回复和不能仔细看下我图解么？
SU-30不算隐身飞机，所以T-50同样。
每个人都同意SU-30不算隐身飞机，在下面的图片中我将举出10个SU-30不算隐身飞机的证据。有趣的是,T-50居然和SU-30同一区域有同样的问题。

这似乎给我们我们2个逻辑的选择，要么你承认T-50不是隐身飞机，要么你可以夸张的认为T-50和SU-30是隐身飞机。


Su-30 is not stealthy. Here are 10 non-stealth features.

SU-30不能隐身的10个特征。



In an interesting coincidence, the T-50/Pak-Fa shares all ten Su-30 non-stealth features. 

T-50在相同区域有趣的出现了同样的特征。


ptldM3（俄罗斯）

Anyone that that proclaims things such as the pak-fa has ‘ same round and tall fuselage as the SU-30’ is an imbecile and should be treated as such.
For one, the two fuselages share little to no similarities, and two, what ‘stealth’ principle does the fuselage violate? What you think is irrelevant and if I’m quite frank, retarded.
Did you still not realize your fault and backwards logic? If the pak-fa’s (single) IRST is ‘not stealthy’ than the J-20’s (4 large) under-wing pods should be disatererous, after all there are four of them, they are many times larger than an IRST, they a spherical/cylindrical and they go against your ‘continuous curvature’ principle, but of course the J-20 is excused from basic physics.
Further, the pak-fa as you point out has an ‘uneven fuselage’ yet why is this important? Perhaps because it can present a corner reflector, be it small. Yet what about the J-20’s tail fins? If the pak-fa’s uneven fuselage is a corner reflector than the J-20’s tail fins are equally corner reflectors, and if we are fair they are worse because not only do you get a corner reflector from the side but from underneath the aircraft.

谁正式发布说“T-50的整个机身和SU-30是一样的”只有被洗脑的和2B才会这么说。
第一，这种机身几乎没有相同的设计，第二，隐身的定义是什么？T-50的机身违反了么？你认为什么是和隐身不相干的？智障。
你还没意识你的错误和逻辑混乱么？如果一架T-50在红外特征上不隐身，那翼下拥有4个吊舱的J-20更不用想了，当这4个吊舱被使用，那么他的红外信号将多倍与T-50，他们是球形或者圆柱型形的，根本不适用你的“连续弯曲”原则。当然你们可以怪罪于你们较差的基础物理学。
进一步说，正如你说T-50有一个不平坦的机身，哪有多重要呢？因为那就是一个角反射器么？再说J-20的尾翼吧，就算T-50不平坦的机身相当于一个角反射器，也比J-20的尾翼反射的要少.



Japan's F-3 "XinShen" VS China's J-20

日本F-3“心神”VS中国J-20




Chinese response.....

中国的回应



评论：

FairAndUnbiased(中国） 

J-20 wins by default because its not a block of wood.
Even Japan admits F-3 will only be ready by 2033, a full 15 years after the J-20 is ready. By then, there'd probably be a J-30. 

J-20胜，因为它不是一块木头。
即使像日本人那样说F-3到2033年入役，那么J-20有整整15年做对应。到那时，J-30都出来。 


ChineseTiger1986（中国） 
It should be 18 years later than J-20, since J-20 will be fully operational by 2015.
BTW, we don't compare J-20 with some fictional aircraft. 

如果J-20能够在2015年交付军方使用，那么“心神”将落后J-2018年。
顺便说一句，我们不想拿J-20和不存在飞机比较。


AerospaceEngineer(中国） 
You know why the japanese come up with crap like this??
Because they are becoming more and more like you indians. 
I am very happy to see this kinda of stuff, because it shows that there is big change in Japanese's mentality. LOL, you will not see the Japanese showing LCA vs F3. NEVER.

你知道为什么日本想得出这种SHI一样图片么？
因为他们越开越像你们印度人了。（三哥节哀，没发帖也中枪）
我非常喜欢开到这样的照片，因为这表明日本到目前为止智力没啥变化，笑，不过你永远看到日本人拿F-3和LCA比。 


jellodragon（巴基斯坦） 
Bot these planes have not even been deployed in their airforces, why are you fanboy comparing them now? 
这些飞机还没有被部署到空军部队，为什么你们这些粉丝那么爱比较他们乃？ 


April.lyrics（中国） 
2033....thats enough.... Thank 

2033年。。。够了。。。。谢谢。。。 


ChineseTiger1986 
First of all, this was started by some Japanese fanboy.
Second, J-20 is real, but F-3 is fictional. 

首先，这些玩意是日本粉丝最先搞出来的。
第二，J-20是真实存在的，但是F-3是虚构的。